New Podcast: What Canada Gets Right About Inclusion: My Conversation with Dr. Shelley Moore

This week on the podcast, I had the absolute privilege of speaking with Dr. Shelley Moore — educator, researcher, consultant, inclusion specialist, and all-round force of nature in the world of SEND. I knew the conversation would be good… but I wasn’t prepared for just how eye-opening it would be.

If you’ve ever felt frustrated, helpless, or downright confused by the way SEND provision works here in the UK, let me reassure you: you are not imagining it — and things can be done differently. Because in Canada, as Shelley explained, they’re not just tweaking the system or adding SEND as an afterthought…
They’ve brought inclusion into the heart of mainstream education, and the results are transformative.


“Inclusion isn’t a place. It’s a practice.”

One of the first things Shelley said stopped me in my tracks. In the UK, we often talk about inclusion as though it’s a room — a unit, a base, a separate space where children with additional needs are “included” by being placed somewhere else.

But Shelley’s framework flips that completely.

Inclusion is how we teach, not where we put people.

It’s not about fitting children into a system; it’s about designing a system flexible enough for everyone. Canadian educators aren’t perfect — no country is — but they’ve embedded a mindset that sees diversity as a strength, not a problem to be managed.


A System That Actually Welcomes Difference

In Canada, mainstream classrooms are built on a principle Shelley calls “teaching to the edges.” Instead of designing for the mythical “average” learner and bolting on support afterwards, teachers plan with the extremes in mind from the very start.

When the edges are included, everyone benefits.

As Shelley explained, inclusive practice isn’t just for pupils with SEND — it improves outcomes for:

  • multilingual learners
  • students with social, emotional, or behavioural needs
  • gifted pupils
  • students experiencing trauma
  • and yes, the so-called “typical” learner too

The UK loves a good label.
Canada loves a good strategy.

And honestly? It shows.


What the UK Can Learn (And Why We Should)

The thing that hit me hardest in our conversation was this:
Inclusion is not a luxury. It’s not optional.
It’s the foundation of great teaching.

Shelley talked passionately about how Canadian teachers are supported, trained and trusted to adapt, differentiate and design learning that works for the actual humans in front of them.

In the UK, we’ve become masters of paperwork.
Canada has become masters of practice.

Imagine what our classrooms could look like if:

  • every teacher received proper training in inclusive design
  • SEND wasn’t a bolt-on but part of initial teacher education
  • support wasn’t rationed or gatekept
  • curriculum and assessment were flexible enough to meet diverse needs
  • teachers were trusted to innovate rather than tick boxes

It’s not impossible. It’s happening somewhere else already.

And hearing Shelley describe it so clearly made me feel two things at once:
deeply inspired… and very aware of how far we still have to go.


A Personal Shift in Perspective

As a teacher, as a leader, and as a parent of a child with autism, this conversation genuinely changed the way I think about inclusion.

I’ve spent years hearing the phrase “mainstream isn’t the right place.”
But Shelley showed me that mainstream can be the right place — if mainstream changes.

And that’s the heart of her message:
The system must adapt to the child, not the other way around.

That’s inclusion.
That’s dignity.
That’s good teaching.

Make it Make SENDs #5 : Music and Inclusivity – is it even possible? with Kate Campbell-Green Detention Diaries

Music, Inclusion, and Empowerment with Kate Campbell GreenJoin us in this insightful episode as Kate Campbell Green shares her journey through music education, inclusion, and advocacy. We explore how music can be a powerful tool for social change, personal growth, and transforming educational spaces. Discover practical strategies to make music truly inclusive and inspiring at all levels.Timestamps:00:00 – Welcome and introduction to Kate Campbell Green's journey 02:23 – Setting the tone: Covid, new year, and purpose of the Make It Make Sense podcast 03:03 – Why understanding my autistic daughter enhances my work in education 04:00 – The broad role of music services in schools and misconceptions 05:38 – How music education addresses disengagement and fosters belonging 06:36 – The significance of authentic venues like Stoller Hall and Band on the Wall 09:02 – Early musical influences and pathways from DJing to education 10:33 – Growing up autistic and ADHD: challenges and the role of music as sanctuary 13:13 – The power of creative process and improvisation in music learning 16:04 – Deep dive into inclusive music education: frameworks and mental models 18:19 – The four Rs of inclusion: rapport, resilience, representation, reflection 22:21 – The culture of music departments as safe spaces 23:02 – Is education truly inclusive? Challenges and personal reflections 25:26 – Insights from Dr. Shelley Moore on inclusive practices worldwide 28:41 – The pitfalls of segregation versus genuine inclusion 31:23 – The physiological and neurological impact of music on neurodiverse learners 33:45 – How improvisation and creative frameworks foster belonging 36:43 – Building trust and relationships in disengaged learners 38:07 – The emotional weight and reward of nurturing young people through music 43:21 – The impact of engagement in real-world performance venues 48:39 – How Tameside Music Service creates opportunities for all young people 55:18 – The significance of spaces like Stoller Hall for young performers 62:37 – The role of PGCEI and professional development in advancing inclusive practice 66:35 – Practical tips for teachers: mindset, respect, and embracing complexity 68:37 – The leaky pipeline: strategies to support long-term musical journeys 75:44 – Envisioning the future: joined-up pathways and careers in music 76:54 – The need for holistic, continuous music learning from cradle to career 79:55 – Why creativity and improvisation are skills machines can't replicate 80:48 – Reflection: the people behind music education give us hope 81:16 – If policy makers listened: Just give us the money & trust educators 82:23 – Balancing life and work: personal anecdotes from Kate 86:31 – What's next: new projects, stewardship, and supporting local music ecosystemsSupport the showEnjoyed the episode? Then it’s time to join the class.👉 Head to http://www.detentiondiaries.comto read the blog, sign up for the newsletter, and join our online staffroom community.Because education doesn’t end at the classroom door — and neither does the conversation.Support the showEnjoyed the episode? Then it’s time to join the class. 👉 Head to http://www.detentiondiaries.com to read the blog, sign up for the newsletter, and join our online staffroom community. Because education doesn’t end at the classroom door — and neither does the conversation.
  1. Make it Make SENDs #5 : Music and Inclusivity – is it even possible? with Kate Campbell-Green
  2. Detention Diaries #5 – Redefining Masculinity: What does it really mean to be a man?
  3. Detention Diaries #4 What Teachers Really Need: Ross McGill on Workload, Wellbeing & the Future of Schools
  4. Make it Make SENDS #4 – Aiming for the Edges with Dr Shelley Moore. How inclusion REALLY works!
  5. Make it Make SENDs #3 – Talking About Talking: Jane Harris on Fixing the Speech and Language Crisis

Why This Conversation Matters

If you work in education, care for a young person with SEND, or simply want to understand how schools should work, please listen to the full episode. Shelley’s insight isn’t just practical — it’s hopeful. And hope is something we all need right now.

You can listen to the episode and join the conversation at:
👉 www.detentiondiaries.com

And while you’re there:

  • read the blog
  • join the community
  • subscribe to the newsletter
  • and share your own experiences of inclusion — the good, the bad, and the “Why is this form 14 pages long?”

We’re building this movement together.


Final Thought

Dr. Shelley Moore reminded me that inclusion isn’t a destination.
It’s a habit. A belief. A choice we make every day in our classrooms, our schools, and our policies.

Canada is proving it’s possible.
Now it’s our turn.


Join the Conversation

If this episode resonated with you — or challenged you — I’d love for you to be part of the community we’re building.

👉 Join the community at: www.detentiondiaries.com
Find blogs, podcast episodes, resources, and a space for honest conversation about modern education.

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Your voice matters. Your story matters.
Let’s rethink education — together.


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